tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post4621554531031792992..comments2024-03-05T15:22:45.423+05:30Comments on The Summing Up: My Name Is Gauhar Jaan: the life and times of a musicianSandhya Iyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14447589463166718231noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-59049714438001224242022-07-19T12:25:11.205+05:302022-07-19T12:25:11.205+05:30Hello Sandhya, I read your review of Vikram's ...Hello Sandhya, I read your review of Vikram's book today. You have presented the wrong facts presented by Vikram in the beginning as it is. Gauhar Jan's father was not Armenian, nor was her mother Indian. Both Gauhar's father and mother were related to England. I have read Vikram's book. They haven't done enough research. Neither they know the dialect of North India, Awadhi, Braj, or Bhojpuri, nor do they have knowledge of the Bengali language, nor can they read Urdu. The English writer of India is completely cut off from the ground - it felt like reading this book like many Indian English writers.Pankaj Parasharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831190515181164649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-79888494761004459542010-07-29T18:48:43.596+05:302010-07-29T18:48:43.596+05:30Alexander: I like the 'authorial voice' to...Alexander: I like the 'authorial voice' to guide me sometimes - both in fiction and non-fiction. If it's a sensible, eloquent voice, all the better.<br />But I don't want the narrator to be overbearing like how Naipaul tends to be. At the same time, many non-fiction writers work like reporters and only want to show you certain facts and let you take a guess on things. That's again a technique and choice alright, but there is then that uneasy feeling where you know the author wants to say so much and is holding back. I feel if something is screaming for an intervention from the author, he must not desist - fiction or non-fiction. Even in fiction, one novel where I felt that the author was not responding to her character's plight at all and was determinedly only stating events was Manju Kapoor's Home. I found her refusal to participate almost offensive after a point. I think it's a call the writer has to take. There is no right and wrong, necessarily. <br /><br />Vikram's sympathies lie with Gauhar of course, but when one is dealing with a bygone era, naturally, the author, much like the readers is in the process of discovery himself. It is documentation of an interesting period. It is history made interesting, not so much through the method of commentary, but by stringing together such wonderful period details and happenings around the main character.sandhyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-60061451291390022842010-07-29T18:29:59.879+05:302010-07-29T18:29:59.879+05:30Yes, Alexander, that was my one complaint about th...Yes, Alexander, that was my one complaint about the CD - that there was no listing of what's on it. However, being from India and from this music tradition, sometimes I'm quite happy not to know anything, and just immerse myself. I loved the book, most of it...I wish you could read an essay by one Sheila Dhar (I am a big fan of her writing on music and other things) of her experience of listening to the music she loved, in the presence of western ears to whom the music made no sense - it is a funny and also very spot-on piece of writing, about how the familiar becomes the odd, when heard in the company of others...one begins to hear it like they do, just arbitrary and sometimes painful sounds!gouri dangehttp://gouridange.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-78274392263710660282010-07-29T14:30:20.542+05:302010-07-29T14:30:20.542+05:30I disagree about the authorial voice in the non-fi...I disagree about the authorial voice in the non-fiction. If it's missing, such literature would read like an ordinary history textbook and therefore be as dull and unreadable as anything. This is not what I meant about Vikram's book. For me it is clear that he has a lot of affection for Gauhar and he is certainly partial, and I don't mean that in derogatory sense of course. It is perfectly fine for me. It is as it should be.<br /><br />To be sure, the author of a biography must submit his personality to that of the artist whose life he writes about, but that doesn't mean the former must necessarily be missing. Indeed, it is always there. Facts are facts, but their interpretation is a personal matter and it does tell a lot about author's attitude to his subject. I would rather have opinionated and biased writer who defends his arguments splendidly, then some impersonal fellow who constantly evades giving opinion and taking responsibility. The best biographies I have read - Schonberg's about Horowitz and Walker's about Liszt - are written by strong personalities who never shy away from expressing their opinions; also, their attitude towards their subject is certainly very positive. Of course in this case there always is a danger of lapsing into inane hero worship, but Schonberg and Walker are sensible enough to avoid this completely. So, indeed, is Vikram. The best biographers expose their subject's mistakes and failures but never harp on them; they understand there are much more important matters than these. So, indeed, does Vikram.<br /><br />And the worst of all is not at all when a biographer is biased and partial - how could he be anything else indeed? Who would sit down to write a whole book about somebody he is not very much interested in, and interest is incompatible with objectivity. That's fine for me. The worst, though, comes when a biographer has an essential dislike for his subject and uses him as a scapegoat for his own failures or as a peg to hang his own perverse fantasies. I am currently reading some of the biographical literature about Somerset Maugham and I am yet again appalled by his so called 'biographers'. For they are obsessed almost exclusively with the dirtiest and most obscene matters about Maugham, thus invariably missing completely the point about the writer and the man, at least as far as I am concerned.<br /><br />All in all, Maugham's brilliant remark about literary criticism may well be attached to writing biographical non-fiction: it is a personal matter, but there is nothing wrong with that if the writer has great personality. To me, great personality is one that shines all through the book but never overshadows the subject, and one that has essentially positive attitude but without any sycophantic nonsense.Alexanderhttp://www.librarything.com/profile/Waldsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-79503056447042274902010-07-29T13:28:03.461+05:302010-07-29T13:28:03.461+05:30Vikram - I agree. In fact, when you talk a lesser ...Vikram - I agree. In fact, when you talk a lesser known personality, there can, in fact, be a tendency to 'amplify' the person, so as to make he/she seem more important than they are. You obvously had no need to do that because there is plenty to Gauhar's life worth documenting, and you've written it most admirably. <br /><br />I think one misses the authorial voice precisely because the prologue where you talk is so interesting. But I completely understand. Firstly, with non-fiction, the author ought to graciously submit before his subject, and secondly this was a bygone era, so it must have been a process of discovery for you, as for the reader. So there wouldn't be much to comment, beyond your findings, I would guess.sandhyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-82561310195608427372010-07-28T23:35:20.942+05:302010-07-28T23:35:20.942+05:30Thanks Sandhya and Alexander! Sandhya, in fact Ale...Thanks Sandhya and Alexander! Sandhya, in fact Alexander and me connected on facebook and i have promised him too to get back with a loooooong mail on the fantastic review he has written (but been running around like a headless chicken in the past few days including that tension filled air dash to Delhi etc that i am yet to keep up my word)...i in fact told him jokingly that his review of the book was so so similar to Gaisberg's review of Gauhar's music !!! (and alexander, i dont mean this in any derogatory fashion) ..but that seems like such a wonderful coincidence, doesnt it? <br /><br />Authorial voice...hmmmm...do writers of non-fiction have that liberty? if we do get there, we get accused of 'colouring' facts! its a lot of tightrope walking...and frankly given my obsession for the lady i am sure i would have taken sides which would have biased the reader (if i havent done that already!)Vikram Sampathhttp://www.vikramsampath.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-16499955128291506682010-07-18T21:02:13.406+05:302010-07-18T21:02:13.406+05:30Alexander: Splendid, exhaustive piece! I can compl...Alexander: Splendid, exhaustive piece! I can completely understand some of your struggle with the book. It can't be a very easy read for anyone not sufficiently acquainted with Indian history and culture. There are plenty of words in Hindi and while, I believe it lends the book a certain flavour and authenticity, I can fully sympathise with your difficulty in getting through many of the sentences. But there I suppose the author didn't have a choice there.<br /><br />On the narrative style, I somewhat agree that while the writing is competent enough, it misses a strong authorial voice and possibly a dash of Sampath's wit which is obvious in his introduction. He sticks to the facts and lets the drama unfold on its own. And he's lucky that his subject is so interesting, he doesn't need to make the writing florid.<br /><br />I have a lot more to say about your review, which I will...<br /><br />Great job once again!sandhyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-50967485539818306672010-07-16T17:24:18.375+05:302010-07-16T17:24:18.375+05:30Sandhya,
Should you have time to waste, you may s...Sandhya,<br /><br />Should you have time to waste, you may see my attempt for reviewing Gauhar Jaan, rather unsuccessful attempt but affectionately dedicated to you nevertheless, here:<br /><br />http://www.librarything.com/work/10139018/book/61938591<br /><br />Please be warned: it is extremely long and tedious. Much like Maugham I have to abandon it not because I am satisfied with it but because I cannot make it any better. Only the table of contents is on Goodreads.<br /><br />It turned out to be much harder thing to write than I expected, just as the book turned out to be harder to read indeed. But I believe both endeavours did worth the effort.<br /><br />PS Of course any remarks or corrections by you would be most welcome.Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-33255377194279656952010-07-11T19:21:30.610+05:302010-07-11T19:21:30.610+05:30I quite understand what you mean. Exactly for the ...I quite understand what you mean. Exactly for the same reason I haven't reviewed The Summing Up yet, though it is certainly the book I most often re-read.<br /><br />Would love to read your reflections on it anyway. They may stimulate me to finally put mine in some semblance of order, and write them down.<br /><br />I am quite curious whether you'll A Writer's Notebook. It is so very different than The Summing Up, but it looks to me like the perfect complement to it. It is not for Maugham beginners of course - but you are certainly no Maugham beginner anymore. :)Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-66493497685612083062010-07-11T19:06:01.019+05:302010-07-11T19:06:01.019+05:30As I'd mentioned to you - Summing Up for me i...As I'd mentioned to you - Summing Up for me is a 'daily enrichment session'. And frankly, sometimes certain books become so personal in the way they connect with you that you feel no matter what and how you write, it cannot do the least bit justice towards 'summing up' the experience you've had reading it.<br /><br />But since I see it as a hugely important book for those interested in the process of writing etc, I will nevertheless pen down my thoughts, so that others can be encouraged to read this gem.sandhya iyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-77345675349461874042010-07-11T18:55:47.576+05:302010-07-11T18:55:47.576+05:30Sadhya,
Don't feel obliged to put anything on...Sadhya,<br /><br />Don't feel obliged to put anything on The Summing Up if you don't feel like doing so. If the book has enriched your personality at least a little, and if it will bear a certain amount of re-reading in the future, that's quite enough.<br /><br />Yes, the subject of Indian classical music together with your review certainly was inspiring to order and to read. <br /><br />By the way, I have checked the local bookstores, especially one that is somewhat specialised in books in foreign languages, that is in English primarily, but they didn't have any idea of Gauhar Jaan. It seems that the book is quite unobtainable here. Fortunately, we have Internet.Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-12108690095832977912010-07-11T18:39:45.706+05:302010-07-11T18:39:45.706+05:30Alexander: That is a great report on FIFA! At leas...Alexander: That is a great report on FIFA! At least they came third!<br /><br />I promise to put up something on 'Summing Up' soon, and I eagerly await your thoughts on 'Gauhan Jaan'sandhya iyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-15669810024800896352010-07-11T18:37:39.576+05:302010-07-11T18:37:39.576+05:30Vikram - Hey! Great to see your comment and doubly...Vikram - Hey! Great to see your comment and doubly pleased that you think the review does some justice to the book.<br /><br />Alexander is a devoted Somerset Maugham fan (much like me) and IWE is not something he normally reads. But obviously 'Gauhar' inspired him enough to order. Says a lot I would think.<br /><br />I hear the book is going great guns and evoking interest in 'important' circles - all of it richly deserved :-)<br /><br />Hope to see you on the blog often.sandhya iyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-76276067066171052862010-07-11T17:52:21.462+05:302010-07-11T17:52:21.462+05:30Mr Sampath,
Ordering the book from USA wasn't...Mr Sampath,<br /><br />Ordering the book from USA wasn't any trouble at all. It just took a week or so to arrive.<br /><br />I am afraid my review will be neither so beautifully written nor so positive as Sandhya's. But that is to be expected perhaps. It goes without saying that it won't capture the essence of the book at all, but will instead reflect a mediocre and rather prejudiced European mind whose knowledge about India, Indian history and culture is virtually non-existent. Well, nobody's perfect after all.<br /><br />Am I right in asserting that nowhere in the book is some kind of track list for the CD to be found? The discography looks quite exhaustive but I couldn't figure out which are the chosen ones for the CD. Not that it much matters, though I should have liked to know the titles and the exact years of recording of what I am listening to.Alexanderhttp://www.librarything.com/profile/Waldsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-87386330598420203482010-07-11T15:34:05.183+05:302010-07-11T15:34:05.183+05:30Hi Sandhya
Thanks a lot for the review...its so b...Hi Sandhya<br /><br />Thanks a lot for the review...its so beautifully written and i think it captures the essence of the book so well ! <br /><br />@Alexander-- Thanks for taking all the trouble to order the book all the way from the USA...a good feedback to my publishers to ensure the book is on amazon.co.uk as well. Would love to hear ur feedback and of course the review of the book from u!Vikram Sampathhttp://www.vikramsampath.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-86642840702848933782010-07-08T23:16:54.550+05:302010-07-08T23:16:54.550+05:30No, dear, I haven't read the book yet. I am cu...No, dear, I haven't read the book yet. I am currently reading it, as a matter of fact I am still in the beginning, but since it seems eminently readable so far, I expect to finish it, and try to review it, soon. I assume then you wouldn't be offended by my dedication to you. I will try to keep my European prejudices, many and powerful though they are, on a leash.<br /><br />I have long since stopped to buy books from the local bookstores since they never have in stock what I want; more often than not, they don't have what I want at all, even for ordering. Even new books in English are scarce in the Dresden bookstores, though they of course can be ordered and usually come within 2 days. Those are the books available from Amazon.de as well. The case of Gauhar Jaan is a bit more specific. As far as I could find it is available neither from Amazon.de nor from Amazon.co.uk, which means it is pretty unobtainable in Europe. So I ordered my copy from USA through Amazon.com. I suppose it has come to the New World from India: the shopping centers of the publisher listed in the book are all in India.<br /><br />To be sure that I am not lying to you, I'll check the bookshops in Dresden one of these days to see if the book can be found there but I very much doubt it. On the other hand though, it might be different with IWE since the Indian population in Dresden is quite significant.<br />__________________________________<br /><br />(This indicates change of topic.:)<br /><br />Yesterday was the greatest shame in the history of the German football. Germany didn't play any football whatsoever - and naturaly lost. <br /><br />I watched the game on a big screen near Elbe together with some 10 000 people. It was total bedlam. But Germans seem to be great loosers: they took the loss with remarkable equanimity. After the previous wins it was such an euphoria that I was afraid there would be a number of mass suicides if Germany doesn't win the World Cup as well. No. Everybody continues to consume huge amounts of Wurst and Bier as always. It was a curious sensation, during the game, how quiet the pepople were and how not a single German flag was being waving, in a stark contrast with the atsmophere before the match when there were, not thousands perhaps, but surely at least several hundred German flags waving and the noise was literally deafening. Another curious incident was how promptly the sea of people started for the exits immediately after the end of the game; as if the referee had commanded them. I should like to believe most people did realise Spain by far the better team that night and fully deserved to win.Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-9673936815333701882010-07-08T23:16:30.114+05:302010-07-08T23:16:30.114+05:30No, dear, I haven't read the book yet. I am cu...No, dear, I haven't read the book yet. I am currently reading it, as a matter of fact I am still in the beginning, but since it seems eminently readable so far, I expect to finish it, and try to review it, soon. I assume then you wouldn't be offended by my dedication to you. I will try to keep my European prejudices, many and powerful though they are, on a leash.<br /><br />I have long since stopped to buy books from the local bookstores since they never have in stock what I want; more often than not, they don't have what I want at all, even for ordering. Even new books in English are scarce in the Dresden bookstores, though they of course can be ordered and usually come within 2 days. Those are the books available from Amazon.de as well. The case of Gauhar Jaan is a bit more specific. As far as I could find it is available neither from Amazon.de nor from Amazon.co.uk, which means it is pretty unobtainable in Europe. So I ordered my copy from USA through Amazon.com. I suppose it has come to the New World from India: the shopping centers of the publisher listed in the book are all in India.<br /><br />To be sure that I am not lying to you, I'll check the bookshops in Dresden one of these days to see if the book can be found there but I very much doubt it. On the other hand though, it might be different with IWE since the Indian population in Dresden is quite significant.<br />__________________________________<br /><br />(This indicates change of topic.:)<br /><br />Yesterday was the greatest shame in the history of the German football. Germany didn't play any football whatsoever - and naturaly lost. <br /><br />I watched the game on a big screen near Elbe together with some 10 000 people. It was total bedlam. But Germans seem to be great loosers: they took the loss with remarkable equanimity. After the previous wins it was such an euphoria that I was afraid there would be a number of mass suicides if Germany doesn't win the World Cup as well. No. Everybody continues to consume huge amounts of Wurst and Bier as always. It was a curious sensation, during the game, how quiet the pepople were and how not a single German flag was being waving, in a stark contrast with the atsmophere before the match when there were, not thousands perhaps, but surely at least several hundred German flags waving and the noise was literally deafening. Another curious incident was how promptly the sea of people started for the exits immediately after the end of the game; as if the referee had commanded them. I should like to believe most people did realise Spain by far the better team that night and fully deserved to win.Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-34227110326118353942010-07-08T19:51:02.377+05:302010-07-08T19:51:02.377+05:30Wow! So you read the book! Did you like it? And ye...Wow! So you read the book! Did you like it? And yes, am eagerly awaiting your review.<br /><br /> Two other things<br /><br /><br />1. How did you manage to source the book? Are books on Indian writing in English easily available in Dresden?<br /><br /><br />2. Are you watching FIFA and what is the response in Germany to the loss? Here in India, so many were rooting for GermanySandhya Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447589463166718231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-58885780692321667022010-07-08T12:09:53.164+05:302010-07-08T12:09:53.164+05:30Precisely.
It is not written yet of course, but ...Precisely. <br /><br />It is not written yet of course, but I hope soon it will be.Alexanderhttp://www.librarything.com/profile/Waldsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-44922593740434326762010-07-08T11:39:08.079+05:302010-07-08T11:39:08.079+05:30Which review Alexander? Gauhar Jaan?!!!Which review Alexander? Gauhar Jaan?!!!sandhyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-32890302035258229542010-07-07T21:54:06.230+05:302010-07-07T21:54:06.230+05:30Sandhya,
Do I have your permission to dedicate my...Sandhya,<br /><br />Do I have your permission to dedicate my attempt for a review to you?Alexanderhttp://www.librarything.com/profile/Waldsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-86991852320508494082010-06-28T13:55:09.031+05:302010-06-28T13:55:09.031+05:30Hi,
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I'll read...Thank you for your answer, Sandhya.<br /><br />I'll read the book all right. I'm not at all well versed in European classical music myself, but it would be interesting to compare it with the Indian one. Rather superciliously, I thought there is no other classical music than the European one.Alexandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-83052610014926603222010-06-26T21:44:32.754+05:302010-06-26T21:44:32.754+05:30Alexander: Thanks for reading! I don't know if...Alexander: Thanks for reading! I don't know if I can answer your questions satisfactorily, because I am not very well-versed with aspects of classical Indian music. But I'll try. The book of course has a wealth of information on classical music and yes, it is a good beginner's guide, apart from its rivetting story. so you must read if you get a chance.<br /><br />Indian classical is a big thing, and can be chiefly divided into<br /><br />1. Hindustani classical - influenced from persia and urdu languages - this form of music is practised in Northern and central Indian<br /><br /><br />2. Carnatic music: This belongs to the Southern states in India. <br /><br />Both are quite different, but each of them are extremely rich in their musical heritage.<br /><br /><br />"Are any of the pieces the lady in question recorded still performed in India today? That is, do they have a classical status?"<br /><br />Classical music has had a confluience of influences. Gauhar Jaan and her contemporaries popularised Hindustani classical and its different genres. Unfortunately, courtisans who were so respected at one point, fell into disrepute for a variety of reasons and many of their styles and compositions were 'erased' by puritans of the time. No one really knows who Gauhar Jaan was today. The new generation is completely unaware. But her music has been a definite influence and has contributed to the evolution of Hindustani classical.<br />The book has a CD of her first recordings on the gramophone, which I heard, and it transported me to her era.<br /><br /><br />"What kind of music exactly did she perform at the time? She sang songs, or parts of bigger works? What accompaniment did she get? What instruments and ensembles was that music written for?"<br /><br />She had a wonderfully plaint and forceful voice, and was at home in all genres. She sang in many Indian languages, even english and french I suppose. But she was especially good with a genre in Hindustani classical called 'thumri' . Do a small reseach on google on this genre and you'll get an idea.sandhyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956626159470439381.post-79016517739587381612010-06-17T22:44:53.680+05:302010-06-17T22:44:53.680+05:30Quite interesting, Sandhya.
As something of a cla...Quite interesting, Sandhya.<br /><br />As something of a classical music aficionado, I would be interested to know more about the Indian classical music. I didn't even know such thing exists at all. This book seems like an appropriate read for beginners. <br /><br />Interestingly, this lady seems to have started making recordings pretty much at the same as Caruso did - but he recorded opera arias and in New York, so he became the first gramophone superstar with worldwide dimensions.<br /><br />I have few dumb questions.<br /><br />Are any of the pieces the lady in question recorded still performed in India today? That is, do they have a classical status?<br /><br />What kind of music exactly did she perform at the time? She sang songs, or parts of bigger works? What accompaniment did she get? What instruments and ensembles was that music written for?<br /><br />Is European classical music in any way popular in modern India? This is linked with a little personal survey of mine why there are no famous (or obscure, for that matter) Indian performers of that music, even in the last few decades during which the European classical music market was literally flooded with Far East superstars (Japanese, Chinese and such like).<br /><br />Zubin Mehta is of course the obvious exception: the only Indian to achieve eminence, however controversial, in European classical music; at least as far as I know.Alexanderhttp://www.librarything.com/profile/Waldsteinnoreply@blogger.com